Translating/Transcribing postcard messages

[Cassiopheia]

@S_Tuulia

Not everyone

Of course not, sorry I wasn’t precise enough.

[varn]

Thank you @S_Tuulia for speaking up. That means a lot!

The blanket ban that I propose won’t change the world but will make Postcrossing a simpler, better place for Postcrossers.

[RalfH]

@varn

Some have dismissed the potential problem of someone being offended that their postcard message is published on the forum.

No. It is simply not a problem. You make one out of it!

[RalfH]

@varn

The blanket ban that I propose won’t change the world but will make Postcrossing a simpler, better place for Postcrossers.

That would make things more complicated and that is not exactly a better place.

[Cassisia]

@varn

but will make Postcrossing a simpler, better place for Postcrossers.

I’m sorry, but I disagree. Your suggestion doesn’t make it simpler, neither for the users, nor for the admins… Getting help for reading and understanding a postcard will be more complicated and cost more time.

There’s a need for the topic ; if things get too complicated here, people will find faster, simpler solutions, for example by sharing the backside of the card in a Facebook group. I really prefer keeping the simple solution here, under moderation.

[varn]

@Cassisia

Getting help for reading and understanding a postcard will be more complicated and cost more time.

That’s true, but only for the translation/transcription subgroup. My intention is to come up with a solution for Postcrossing as a whole. Also, a blanket ban is easier for moderators to implement than to screen the contents of postcard writings.

@littlesthobo

Again, it’s your opinion that it is a problem that someone might be potentially offended by having the back of their card without identifiers shared on the translation thread. No one is dismissing your opinion. Many people are, instead, disagreeing. I do not believe that this potential is a problem big enough to necessitate a change.

@littlesthobo

When people do not acknowledge that you are right, that doesn’t mean that you just keep spamming them with your opinion until they do.

I don’t like to pick a fight but am not afraid of taking one either. Kindly look what you did in the 1891st post of the translation thread Need help translating a postcard you've received?

[Cassisia]

@varn

My intention is to come up with a solution for Postcrossing as a whole.

What do you mean? What solution for which problem is missing here? Where do pictures of written sides get posted regularly besides the translation topic?

If I stumble upon such a picture in another topic, I’ll flag it and the moderators will take care of it. I don’t see a recurring problem here

[varn]

Appended below is my main argument in the opening post for ease of reference. Your concern is listed in the cons.

@varn

Ban the posting of postcard writings publicly in the forum

This is not meant to stop the translation thread. The difference is that it is not allowed to publish postcard writings in a public thread in the forum. People can still describe the situation and ask for help. The translation part will take place in private (through DM). Hope Postcrossing @admin will give it a thought.

Pros:

• Conforms to the community guidelines. No more exception within Postcrossing’s purview.
• Relieve workload of Postcrossing team to screen the content of postcard writings.
• Obviate the necessity to explain the official translation thread on the main site. Not all Postcrossers are forum members.

Cons:

• More troublesome to get a translation/transcription.

The burden falls on the person in need of a translation to actively look for a translator, which I think is fair.

[Cassisia]

@varn I repeat my question :

@Cassisia

Where do pictures of written sides get posted regularly besides the translation topic?

Edit : The “Handmade” thread is such a place, but there it’s about decorations and the messages are blurred out.

I get the impression that the discussion is an academic one about a theoretical problem…

[varn]

@Cassisia

Where do pictures of written sides get posted regularly besides the translation topic?

Well, that is the very problem that I’m trying to address here, that is, pictures of written sides getting posted publicly somewhere (be it dispersed or concentrated) on the forum.

@Cassisia

I get the impression that the discussion is an academic one about a theoretical problem

I understand it sounds theoretical to many. I’d rather call it structural (Postcrossing team is officially allowing this by introducing opaque exceptions to the otherwise clear-cut community guidelines).

[varn]

@Cassisia

Edit : The “Handmade” thread is such a place, but there it’s about decorations and the messages are blurred out.

Good observation. Actually people in need of a translation/transcription can also post the written side of a postcard with the writings blurred, if they wish, to offer a little preview/tease of the postcard (size, etc.). As initially proposed, the actual translation takes place in private.

[Cassisia]

@varn

by introducing opaque exceptions to the otherwise clear-cut community guidelines).

1. Which “opaque exceptions” ? There’s one clear, transparent exception : the translation topic. As you used the plural, please tell us what you’re referring to.

2. I get it that it is a theoretical problem. But as I wrote above, why regulate theoretical details if the issue is already clearly covered by the rule “don’t publish the written side”?

[Cassisia]

@varn

Actually people in need of a translation/transcription can also post the written side of a postcard with the writings blurred,

How would you translate the written side if the writing is blurred? How could you decide if you’re able to translate it?

I’m sorry, but this is getting a bit absurd here…

@varn

As initially proposed, the actual translation takes place in private.

Did you read my concerns about private translation?

[varn]

With reference to my proposal:

@varn

Ban the posting of postcard writings publicly in the forum

This is not meant to stop the translation thread. The difference is that it is not allowed to publish postcard writings in a public thread in the forum. People can still describe the situation and ask for help. The translation part will take place in private (through DM). Hope Postcrossing @admin will give it a thought.

Pros:

• Conforms to the community guidelines. No more exception within Postcrossing’s purview.
• Relieve workload of Postcrossing team to screen the content of postcard writings.
• Obviate the necessity to explain the official translation thread on the main site. Not all Postcrossers are forum members.

Cons:

• More troublesome to get a translation/transcription.

The burden falls on the person in need of a translation to actively look for a translator, which I think is fair.

@Cassisia

• Which “opaque exceptions” ? There’s one clear, transparent exception : the translation topic. As you used the plural, please tell us what you’re referring to.
• I get it that it is a theoretical problem. But as I wrote above, why regulate theoretical details if the issue is already clearly covered by the rule “don’t publish the written side”?

The answer relates to the 1st and 3rd points in the pros.

1. It is opaque because it is not mentioned on the main site.
2. The rule does not read “don’t publish the written side except somewhere on the forum”.

@Cassisia

How would you translate the written side if the writing is blurred?

It can be done in private.

@Cassisia

Did you read my concerns about private translation?

Addressed in the cons in my main argument.

[Cassisia]

I think it’s inappropriate in a conversation to repeat general arguments if the other party gets more concrete by asking questions.

If you don’t want to refer to answers, you shouldn’t start a discussion.

[varn]

@Cassisia

How would you translate the written side if the writing is blurred? How could you decide if you’re able to translate it?

Some suggestion were posted by me here. The technicalities relate to the cons in my main argument, but to me, they are worthwhile considering the pros.

Translating/Transcribing postcard messages

It is a matter of simple basic manners. Person A asks for help. Person B responds. For example, reply in the public thread. Person A sends Person B the image in private. Translation takes place in private. After it’s done, Person A says so in the public thread. Alternatively, follow the format of trades. The poster marks the thread as “in progress”, “closed”, etc.

A popular counter-argument to my proposal can be phrased like this: Postcard writings can be posted temporarily yet publicly. Although it means creating an exception to the community guidelines, posing a bigger burden of the poster as well as the moderators to screen the contents, and moreover, avoiding mentioning it on the main site, it is more convenient for the translation/transcription subgroup.

[grizzabella]

@varn

My intention is to come up with a solution for Postcrossing as a whole.

Honestly, not everyone is reading the F.A.Q. & Community Guidelines and not everyone is remembering everything what is written there.

If someone is seeking for help because she/he can’t read the handwriting or the foreign language they won’t read first what is written in FAQ und C.G. but they will go straight to a place where she/he will get help. Not everyone’s first choice is the forum. I know a lot of people who are in Postcrossing groups on Facebook. And as @Cassiopheia already said there are a lot of pictures of the backside of postcards (not only because of translational questions there are much more reasons why people show backsides of cards). And all the groups on Facebook are out of the control of the admins. How will you manage this problem in the groups?

Even if you put a big banner on the home page of Postcrossing saying that posting the backs of postcards is not allowed, there will always be people who will do it anyway. There is nothing you can do about it.

[varn]

@grizzabella

And all the groups on Facebook are out of the control of the admins. How will you manage this problem in the groups?

Even if you put a big banner on the home page of Postcrossing saying that posting the backs of postcards is not allowed, there will always be people who will do it anyway. There is nothing you can do about it.

I’m not targeting individual behavior but rather the structural problem I spotted within Postcrossing. Kindly read a few posts above and the opening post.

[grizzabella]

@varn

Kindly read a few posts above and the opening post.

Be sure that I have read the whole topic!

[S_Tuulia]

@Cassisia

Which “opaque exceptions” ? There’s one clear, transparent exception : the translation topic. As you used the plural, please tell us what you’re referring to.

It’s not clear. When someone joins, there is no mentioning their card might be published on the open forum.

Also the decorating threads, once there was a decorated envelope with blurred address, but I could still read the address clearly. I flagged it but it stayed there long after that.

I know Postcrossing can’t monitor all internet and social medias, but they could be a good example.

The least, people should be told (when joining) that their message is allowed to be published in translation thread, open for non member to see too. (This would be more transparent.)

But like here is written, there is not many cards published, then it would not be a big problem to ask the translation privately. Now the messages are visible for long time, even it’s translated.
Edit. Also, if there are so few cards published here, that it should not be seen as a problem, maybe there is no need for the translation thread after all.